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  #1  
Old 15-04-2018
slickncghia's Avatar
slickncghia slickncghia is offline
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Clutch Dragging 2010 TE 450

G'day Guys,

A have a bit of an issue with clutch drag in my 2010 TE 450.

symptoms: really difficult to push in gear with clutch lever in. difficult to start in gear with lever pulled in.

when up on the stand and running. 1)clutch in and kick into gear: wheel starts turning fast.
2)if i rear brake stall to break the plate surface tension then release the rear brake the wheel dosen't start turning again or only barely.

so it seems to be an issue with the plates sticking to me, which they do when observing clutch movement with the cover off.

Steps taken so far:

1) I replaced the slave cylinder to an oberon unit 6 months back as I damaged the stock (but this issue was occurring before then from memory). pulling the lever moves the clutch pack what looks to be the right amount but i cant find a spec amount to compare.

2) Fully flushed and bled the clutch.

3) The outer clutch basket was notched pretty bad so i filed/sanded that down (clearance between the friction plates and outer basket still roughly within spec to manual (<0,6mm)
PS: if anyone is reading this in the future... you need to take the whole side cover off to get the outer basket off... and its a prick to get back on with the kickstarter!

4) Inspected friction plates. discoloured. not much warping (<0.1mm). still max factor spec (.118")

5) Pressure plates discoloured and scorched. not much warping (<0.1mm)

6) Spirngs were 1.55-6" (spec is 1.53-1.61)

7) New oil and filter (10W40 silcolene semi synth 4T)


Still dragging.... any ideas?

is the discolouration or the friction plates and scorching on the pressure plates normal/acceptable? are they burnt out? discolouration from old oil?

surely its not the oil viscocity?

I would hate to spend a couple hundred on new plates to find the issue still exists.

Thanks for taking the time to read.

Ben
Attached Images
File Type: jpeg Basketnotched.jpeg (61.7 KB, 21 views)
File Type: jpeg basketsmooth.jpeg (61.8 KB, 21 views)
File Type: jpeg discoloured.jpeg (92.0 KB, 19 views)
File Type: jpeg scorched.jpeg (62.7 KB, 20 views)
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Old 15-04-2018
ricknaz ricknaz is offline
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Did it happen quickly or over a period of time? I changed oil brands on a bike once and straight away it would stall when putting it in gear when cold.
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  #3  
Old 15-04-2018
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slickncghia slickncghia is offline
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It's really hard to tell unfortunately. I think it's always been there to some degree (bike was second hand when I got it)

I've always had issues stalling this bike at low speeds getting on and off the clutch in the tight stuff and I think this may have been the main cause of that.

So I can't say honestly.

If I can eliminate the plates from being the issue. I am more than happy to try a different oil/visco
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Old 15-04-2018
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hairyone hairyone is offline
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Thanks for putting quality effort into your thread slickncghia; so hopefully you'll get/deserve quality effort in replies.
Presumably you have the thing in bits atm: Install the clutch & check for even disengagement of the pressure plate.

In the past I've needed to swap springs around & even shim one or two in order to achieve an even/flat/level disengagement.
This is merely a preliminary post of mine... I'm more than willing to offer further advice; given my limited knowledge and ability.

Edit: I suspect you'd have some warpage or binding there somewhere & the dragging would have likely exasperated & worsened that condition.
Nevertheless: You may be able to mend the problem with little or no expense/parts provided you can ascertain where the problem actually lies.
================================================== ===============
I did what I said years ago with my Honda XR350, my Husky WR430 and my Husky TE610.
Engineering has likely changed & hopefully progressed since then: Yet basics remain basic.

I can pronounce quite adamantly that you should be looking for, seeking & require an even disengagement.
Whether you have that already, or not, is unknown; yet, as a process of elimination; it's worth finding out.
================================================== =============================
I didn't know we could upload/host a vid on DBW slickncghia; so I'm grateful for your teaching/showing me/us something new.
It's hard to tell with that vid since the plates are moving along with your pressure plate... Which may-indeed be your problem.
How hard is it to hold those plates down whilst the upper/main/top plate moves? Maybe the inner splines are catching & binding somehow?
============================================
I had another look at the pics you posted up top (first post).
Those metal plates look blued (overheated) & scalloped/worn to me.
Imo: All new plates, both Fibre & Metal is likely required... as a first step.
================================================== ====
Edit: yeah, that's right, re. your post below... It's the inner splines that are dragging the plates along with the outer/main one... maybe?
I'd better bow-out here before I make an arse of myself: I'm sure alot of quality people will now view this thread: Yet, you may still need to wait a while until they do.
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Old 15-04-2018
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slickncghia slickncghia is offline
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Thanks for the response hairy one. It's back together however from never touching a clutch in my first 14 years of motorcycling I have pulled this thing appart a handful of times this weekend.

I can open it up again however one thing I notice it that when the bike is on its side (so as not to have to drain oil) the pressure plate seems to come out evenish.not sure how to test it for accuracy, perhaps measuring at different spots and pressures.

However the plates do clearly stick together for a mili second before separating. Not sure if this is common due to the surface tension of the oil

edit: just took a video of clutch under actuation... and its not doing that anymore for whatever reason
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Old 15-04-2018
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slickncghia slickncghia is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hairyone View Post
I did what I did years ago with my Honda XR350, my Husky WR430 and my Husky WR610.
Engineering has likely changed & hopefully progressed since then: Yet basics remain basics.

I can pronounce quite adamantly that you should be looking for seeking & require an even disengagement:
Whether you have that already, or not, is unknown; yet, as a process of elimination; it's worth finding out.
trying to convert the video to mpeg so i can upload in here (mpeg... what is this the 90s?)

FWIW it "looks" like the outer clutch pressure plate is disengaging evenly.

how can i tell for sure?
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Old 15-04-2018
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Tom68 Tom68 is offline
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Wet clutches will always have some amount of drag.
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Old 15-04-2018
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slickncghia slickncghia is offline
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Ok heres the clutch pressure plate actuation. MPEG video attached.

just about had to get all hackery in linux to do it too.

some drag yes. however this think just about pushstarts when you try to move it with the clutch held to the bar.

its certainly dragging more than it should. without doing the brake stall the rear wheel will jump to almost the speed that it would be with the clutch released fully
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Old 15-04-2018
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slickncghia slickncghia is offline
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turns out it needs a pretty firm push to separate the friction plates from the pressure plate

see attached vid. mrs finger. id say a good firm push with the finger.... above standard doorbell pressure lol



sooo... pressure plate (which is attached to the gearbox eventually) getting stuck to a friction plate which is attached to the outer basket which attaches to the motor....
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File Type: mpeg 1.mpeg (1.53 MB, 5 views)
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Old 15-04-2018
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slickncghia slickncghia is offline
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yeah I was suspecting the steels might be worn but couldnt find many pics online of what "worn" is.

so you are saying that the inner clutch basket (that has the grove for the steels to run in) might be worn? I'm just trying to visualise it now..

I thought the rod just pushed the outer pressure plate. therefore creating space for the fibres and steels to slip. and the inner basket stayed put. if that was the case wouldn't notched groves stop the steels from moving out? ...

thanks again for the replies HO
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