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  #81  
Old 15-07-2018
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Originally Posted by Spac View Post
Terry, I appreciate your knowledge and your willingness to share it.
But you are kind of sounding like a bit of a jerk in the last day or so.
Possibly just run out of patience Spac? Kinda like the way I react to anti-vaxers... denying science in favour of their own observations or opinions . I have NO patience for them and will go to town ridiculing them .
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  #82  
Old 16-07-2018
Terry Hay Terry Hay is offline
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Spac
It could have been a really interesting thread but the conversation lead more to evasion than solution....beating around the bush gets very tiring.

Shall we all hold hands now....?
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  #83  
Old 16-07-2018
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Originally Posted by Arctra View Post
Possibly just run out of patience Spac? Kinda like the way I react to anti-vaxers... denying science in favour of their own observations or opinions . I have NO patience for them and will go to town ridiculing them .
aka being a jerk!!

I don't agree with the anti vax mob either, and I cringe when I read some of the things they post.. but at the end of the day if I can't saying anything nice I tend to say nothing at all.

Back on topic, I really appreciate that we can get an insight into some discussion between two valued tuners. Be great if a couple more people had the knowledge to chime in with some useful information too.

From my basic understanding and time spent 'tuning' my own suspension, I figured most tuners operating without some equipment to measure or record data are simply stabbing in the dark. This doesn't mean that you can't shuffle some shims and put in ride time and shuffle some more and come up with a great tune for an individual.. but it does mean a large amount of time, trial and error is required to do so.

Does a dyno solve all the problems, or hold all the answers?? Of course not. Can it be used to increase understanding and question previous beliefs.. FOR SURE! I think this is where Dave is at.. And if you don't question what you thought you knew, than you'll never be thinking outside of the box.

Last edited by Jakobi; 16-07-2018 at 11:03 AM.
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  #84  
Old 16-07-2018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakobi View Post
aka being a jerk!!

I don't agree with the anti vax mob either, and I cringe when I read some of the things they post.. but at the end of the day if I can't saying anything nice I tend to say nothing at all.

Back on topic, I really appreciate that we can get an insight into some discussion between two valued tuners. Be great if a couple more people had the knowledge to chime in with some useful information too.

From my basic understanding and time spent 'tuning' my own suspension, I figured most tuners operating without some equipment to measure or record data are simply stabbing in the dark. This doesn't mean that you can't shuffle some shims and put in ride time and shuffle some more and come up with a great tune for an individual.. but it does mean a large amount of time, trial and error is required to do so.

Does a dyno solve all the problems, or hold all the answers?? Of course not. Can it be used to increase understanding and question previous beliefs.. FOR SURE! I think this is where Dave is at.. And if you don't question what you thought you knew, than you'll never be thinking outside of the box.
And for a bloke like Dave who is tuning a massive variety of bikes, being able to bolt a shock or forks on a dyno, get an understanding where they are at and compare to a known/proven baseline would be invaluable.
I steer clear of tuning alot of bikes for this reason, where do you start? Like you said, the other option is alot of shim shuffling and testing to find out what works, which I'm fine with and enjoy but its time consuming and doesn't make the best business sense.
Sure, a good understanding of the theories is a necessity aswell and you can't ignore alot of seat time testing either but as Dave has mentioned, "the dyno has disproven more theories than it has proven". It is no doubt invaluable in this area and with a massive time saving among other things.

Anyway, carry on...
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  #85  
Old 16-07-2018
Terry Hay Terry Hay is offline
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A dyno is a valuable piece of equipment in both purchase price and information delivered.
The purchase commitment is not rewarded unless you are getting the maximum out of it. Pointing out that someone isn't using their dyno correctly is hardly the act of a jerk. A jerk would have let him continue doing it....
There are many who buy a dyno simply to tell everyone that they "have a dyno". This seems to go on a lot these days.
But the dyno isn't able to feel. It's nothing magical and it won't tell you what will work better or worse it will only tell you what "is"....so long as you are reading it correctly.
There was a thread on Thumpertalk about what makes a good dyno curve.....What does make a good curve? There were so many theories apart from the obvious....The short answer is "A good shock".
Once you believe you have a shock performing at its optimum you should put it on the dyno and note the curve, This can now be utilised as a reference for future builds of similar shocks.
If a brand new bike came out tomorrow and you had not seen it on a track, a dyno curve will not allow you to informed suspension changes. You could certainly compare it to other shocks and make an assumption, but until you actually ride the bike, you won't be sure.
In the case of the YZ65 graphs posted we were able to pick a flaw but I wouldn't set about making any valving changes until the bike was ridden and feedback was gathered.
Once again....I would rather have a dyno than not have one..... but its simply another tool....no magic here....
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  #86  
Old 17-07-2018
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Wow! The direction of this thread is somewhat surprising.

At times, it seems like Terry and I have been having two different conversations.

Iím unsure how anyone can draw a conclusion on my testing procedures from the information I have shared.

I havent seen anyone suggest the dyno is magical. Nor have I seen anyone say that the dyno is the only way to tune suspension. Yes its simply another tool, but I think its the most valuable tool I own. No other tool or piece of advise has helped me this much and especially not in such a short time.

I'm not going to partake in the name calling or the use of insults. I'll continue to talk about the measurements I have taken and the results as they present themselves.
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  #87  
Old 17-07-2018
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Too much time spent ignoring the big questions in this thread. The real suspension question is why do my fork seals keep leaking?
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  #88  
Old 17-07-2018
380EXCQLD 380EXCQLD is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sharpXR400 View Post
The real suspension question is why do my fork seals keep leaking?
I'm no expert, but I don't think it's your midvalve

I am biased though, so I'll blame the colour of your bike
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  #89  
Old 17-07-2018
Terry Hay Terry Hay is offline
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David
No name calling from me at anytime and never did I say that you said the dyno was magical. I simply made a statement that it wasn't.
You presented information that clearly demonstrated a lack of understanding of the very machine you say has provided an unequalled level of knowledge. Those who know would say this is a little paradoxical.
It was you that chose to skirt around this every time and still continue to do so. If there seems like there are two conversations, it is surely from your attempts to avoid the issue. You were going to respond but never got back to me. I can only presume that the sources you referenced confirmed the same problem.
And yes, we should let this go......
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  #90  
Old 4 Weeks Ago
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry Hay View Post
It was you that chose to skirt around this every time and still continue to do so. If there seems like there are two conversations, it is surely from your attempts to avoid the issue. You were going to respond but never got back to me.
What exactly am I still skirting around? Let me know so that I can answer you straight away.
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