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  #1  
Old 13-02-2012
Blunny Blunny is offline
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SSS Kayaba suspension tuning. Seppo style.

I have NFI about suspension tuning.....(Im posting these links for opinions & critique).

All I know about suspension is that my old 'Berg is wired to my spinal column and seems to go where I think before I need to waggle the handlebars (unlike the vague twitchy orange bikes I have ridden...).
So, in the quest for 2 stroke nirvana with my, new to me, Why Zee 2fiddy I have read every thread in the known forum universe on how to set them up. I came across some interesting stuff in seppo land on how they set up the SSS Kayaba's. Now the Aussie suspension shops are probably all over this so don't flame me if its all old hat and I am so far behind Jap suspension 101 that I should have a large grey beard & be kept in a small room.

Its from a suspension shop called Smart Performance.

Article 1; http://www.thumpertalk.com/topic/629..._fromsearch__1

And follow the link to Article / page 2....

Article 3; http://www.thumpertalk.com/topic/585...mod-procedure/

Click on the PDF.

Is this standard set up for Aussie suspension peoples? Are the seppos doing something different? Should I be asking the suspension guy this?

Set me straight fellas...

Thanks
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  #2  
Old 17-02-2012
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Braap Braap is offline
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What sort of riding you doing pal? I got my suspension set up pretty well on my YZ.
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Old 17-02-2012
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i'm no suspension wiz, but i beleive mxtech follow a similar approach.. ditch the bleed/float and get as much damping happening as soon as possible..

I had that setup on my KTM and the amount of control was crazy as the damping curve had no kinks in it.

I went back to a standard setup as i thought the mx-tech setup was a bit harsh, and the second tuner said yeah it was a bit of an "sx" setup.

But after he put it back to a more traditional setup it was still just as harsh, but i lost all the control... turns out it was more of an issue with the bike than the suspension setup.

Springs can't handle variations with speed, so if you give them any responsibility in regards to damping then your bike will work differently at 40km/h to 100km/h, so I reckon he is spot on there.

I could hit downhill erosion mounds doing 80km/h with a closed throttle and it wouldn't buck at all.
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Old 17-02-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Disco View Post
Springs can't handle variations with speed, so if you give them any responsibility in regards to damping then your bike will work differently at 40km/h to 100km/h, so I reckon he is spot on there.
http://www.thumpertalk.com/topic/629..._fromsearch__1

http://www.thumpertalk.com/topic/629...0%93-part-two/

He's talking about the springs that control the valving not the weight bearing springs.

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Old 17-02-2012
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I beleive he's saying that if you delay the hydraulics in the initial movement that main springs are handling the suspension for that period of time. Then you have to deal with the energy that you've stored in those springs.

He's saying his springs create a type of float AFTER the fact (late in the curve).

Quote:
the Dell Taco spring, is a type of float - it’s just at the other end of the speed or velocity spectrum.
The sooner you get the hydrailics happening, the smoother your curve, and the less variation you get by using a load sensitive component to do a speed senstive components job.
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Old 17-02-2012
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I'm reading the Dell Taco as giving greater low velocity resistance and more blowoff for square edges.

Picturing it more like the solid lines as oppssed to the lower dashed line.


Last edited by Tom68; 17-02-2012 at 04:24 PM. Reason: Velocity- speed, same but different.
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Old 17-02-2012
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Yes, more lower velocity resistance because he's ditched the float and therefore avoided a reliance on the springs to provide the damping effect in the early stage of the curve (before the shim stack fully engages).

Are you thinking about installing them in your KDX

I've requested some pricing and more info from him, see if it's cheaper than the mxtech setup.
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Old 17-02-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Disco View Post
.

Are you thinking about installing them in your KDX
.
Nah, KDX handles fine with its shit forks nothing with sss forks here, doesn't stop me having an interest.
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Old 18-02-2012
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Bushmechanic Bushmechanic is offline
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thanks for the link Tom

there are a few people who dislike this approach in theory and others who have tried it in practice and not been happy.

Ive put DDTs in a kx250 2 smoke fiddled with it for ages and ended up with "perfect" results and in an 08 yz450 with very very good but not as perfect results. Ive also put similar setups of my own "homebrew" nature in a few different bikes and find them generally to be excellent.

the theory of a conventional setup is to have a float to delay the engagement in time and speed then have it lock out to control bottoming.

if you want it to engage sooner or at a lower speed you need less float but then it can be harsh on MS/HS hits. so you need to increase the deflection but that reduces bottoming resistance.

those who dislike the concept of a MV with no float and "blowoff" springs say that it will always have unnecessary initial harshness and lack bottoming resistance.

the setups I have used that work the best are in between the 2 extremes. I use very low floats and a system of some sort usually a 2D backer that allows more deflection at HS. IMHO if the cartridge diameter is small like around 22mm you don't really need blowoff springs just build a MV that allows more deflection.

I reckon you need a bit of bleed at the mv but it can't be a bleed shim on the face, put a small diam shim one step away and build a reverse pyramid to control max deflection and increase the pivot width with increasing deflection.

in short if you have a DDT that is too harsh initially you can add a little bit of bleed with a bleed stage and if you have one that bottoms too much on big hits you can limit the max deflection of the stack. if you want it to hold up better in MS increase the preload on the spring/s or change the spring rate.

AFAIK the mxtech setup has a clamped MV stack with 6mm ID shims and a small collar 6mm id 8mm od where a floating face shim can run, the distance this shim moves is the float.

there is a thread somewhere on TT where the "new" KYB MV is examined and used as a means of controlling MV "blowoff" spring rate, MV max deflection and initial bleed.

Disco, regarding packing issues with this approach I have found it to almost always be a result of cavitation and curable by addressing pressure balance.
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  #10  
Old 18-02-2012
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Yep im one of those people who tried Davej's setup and did not like it, but this was on my 08 WR250F though.
Running the updated Kyb MV leaf spring arrangement on my WP CC forks at the moment, very happy with the feeling/setup so far... no racing on it yet though.
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