dbw - dirtbikeworld.net Members Forums

Go Back   dbw - dirtbikeworld.net Members Forums > The Workshop > Tech Talk

Tech Talk Proudly Sponsored by Mainjet Motorcycles


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 18-07-2016
Arctra's Avatar
Arctra Arctra is online now
"The Crack Of DOOM"
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Sydney (Penrith area)
Posts: 2,925
Lithium battery longevity

I have an SSB Lithium battery in my Beta which has just been sitting in the garage waiting for me to heal up. Now, from what I understand these batteries are designed to pump out a large current for starting the bike, then be rapidly recharged - they are not designed like deep-cycle batteries to provide a constant small current. I am sure there must be some small parasitic current draws on my bike from things like the speedo, the thermo-fan circuit, and who knows what else, so I would like to know whether I should be disconnecting my battery if I am not going to ride my bike for a few weeks/months in order to preserve the battery?

If I remember correctly, the Lithium batteries store their charge really well if they just sit in the bike no connected to anything, so after a few weeks/months it should be very close to fully charged still even without being on a charger. But when I connected my charger this morning, after it has been sitting connected in the bike for about 2 months now, it showed the battery is charging and the charging light didn't go out after an hour - so the battery must need a fair amount of charge. That's what sparked this question and makes me suspect there must be some very small current draw when the bike is just sitting there.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 18-07-2016
Roon's Avatar
Roon Roon is offline
dbw Pro Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Sydney
Posts: 1,393
Dean, I put a Lithium into my VOR, rode it a few times then parked it for a few months, went to start the bike, battery was dead, put it on charge....wouldn't hold charge, battery was stuffed....1 month out of warranty as well....

From memory I was told that the Lithium battery shouldn't be left to run flat, they need to be kept charged or disconnected....
__________________
www.01moto.com.au
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 18-07-2016
tmac450's Avatar
tmac450 tmac450 is offline
dbw Pro Champion
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: The Riff
Posts: 4,234
Yes, running a lithium battery dead can destroy them, which is why most tool batteries have a cut-out preventing them from using up all their power.

The up side is they can hold their charge for a long time when not connected. Something like 99% over 6 months, 95% over 12 months.

Probably better off disconnecting or periodically charging them if not being used.
__________________
Total Tools Penrith
127 Coreen Avenue
Best Service, Best Brands, Best Prices, Biggest Range.
Like Us On Facebook
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 18-07-2016
tm_nate's Avatar
tm_nate tm_nate is online now
dbw Factory Pro
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 648
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roon View Post
Dean, I put a Lithium into my VOR, rode it a few times then parked it for a few months, went to start the bike, battery was dead, put it on charge....wouldn't hold charge, battery was stuffed....1 month out of warranty as well....

From memory I was told that the Lithium battery shouldn't be left to run flat, they need to be kept charged or disconnected....
Yep. I've found the same, if they are drained flat they are pretty much buggered. Won't come back like a lead acid will. They don't take a parasitic drain very well at all. Keep them fully charged and disconnected while not in use for extended periods.
Tmac beat me to it..
__________________
Current toys, Subaru powered Manxter buggy, Mt-09 Tracer 2016, TM En300 2016
Previous toys, 2004 Ec300, 2009 Tenere 660, 1996 Cr250, 1984 Yz100, 2006 FZ6, 1981 Z750, 1981 XL250s.

If you could reason with religious people there would be no religious people.. House.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 18-07-2016
Rebuild's Avatar
Rebuild Rebuild is offline
dbw Pro Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 1,982
i did measure about 0.5mA current drain on my 300's SSB, so now disconnect fully if bike sits for a while.
So, say 7AH, gives 14000 hours(about a year and a half) to full discharge

Same deal here, came to check battery after a long period, wouldn't even turn over the fan, so now disconnect
__________________
Steve
Ariel MCC
Covering SA in singletrack since 1928
09 KTM300EXC-E
89 KTM125EXC

Last edited by Rebuild; 18-07-2016 at 05:22 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 18-07-2016
Pete40's Avatar
Pete40 Pete40 is online now
dbw Pro Hero
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Boggo Rd. Jail
Posts: 11,267
TMAC said it. But also I will add to disconnect if you do have a slow drain. I bought two of the "Anti-Gravity" brand from the US when they first came out. Put one in a 950SE and the other in a 690E. The 950 had a cigarette-lighter charger with a small red light glowing all the time - that used to run it low. The 950 eventually died - the 690 one is still alive and going strong after 5 yrs plus.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 18-12-2016
andrewktm450's Avatar
andrewktm450 andrewktm450 is offline
dbw Factory Pro
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Illawarra
Posts: 696
Lithium battery murdered by faulty voltage regulator

On the topic of Lithium Ion batteries, they do have a large negative if everything is not 100% with your bike
I fitted one onto my Sherco after the original lead acid battery died (9v) after nearly 5 years. I was chuffed with the life but thought the extra $'S for the substantial weight loss was worth it it. What Ididn't check was what my voltage regulator capped the charging voltage at. When it did check it, after the new battery was murdered, I found it topping out @ 16 volts. I suspect that 16 volts greatly contributed to the death of the original lead acid battery but it was 100% responsible for the murder of the new Lithium Ion battery 30 minutes into its first ride.
Smoke billowing out of the air box, battery so hot water sizzled on it & the battery itself melted into a deformed mess. We kept clear for a couple of minutes as there was a real risk of the bike catching fire.
My later discussion with the supplier of the battery left me feeling a bit miffed as they'd had several reports of these events from customers in the past & hadn't thought about issuing a warning to check your voltage regulator before going down the Lithium path. They stated "that was probably a good idea".
Bottom line suggestion - if your after out & out robust reliability for a battery, best to stick with a lead acid style. If your racing or prepared to accept some extra risk of failure then Lithium is for you.
That said, if it's a Jap voltage regulator, you can be 99% confident. If it's Italian, Mmmmmmmmmm. Let just say my Sherco is now sporting a lead acid battery & Yamaha regulator & tops out @ 14.8 volts when your ringing it's neck.
__________________
Le courage, c'est l'art d'avoir peur sans que cela paraisse.
Courage is the art of being frightened and not showing it.

AndrewKTM450
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 18-12-2016
Chewy's Avatar
Chewy Chewy is offline
dbw Pro Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Geebong
Posts: 2,104
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewktm450 View Post
On the topic of Lithium Ion batteries, they do have a large negative if everything is not 100% with your bike
I fitted one onto my Sherco after the original lead acid battery died (9v) after nearly 5 years. I was chuffed with the life but thought the extra $'S for the substantial weight loss was worth it it. What Ididn't check was what my voltage regulator capped the charging voltage at. When it did check it, after the new battery was murdered, I found it topping out @ 16 volts. I suspect that 16 volts greatly contributed to the death of the original lead acid battery but it was 100% responsible for the murder of the new Lithium Ion battery 30 minutes into its first ride.
Smoke billowing out of the air box, battery so hot water sizzled on it & the battery itself melted into a deformed mess. We kept clear for a couple of minutes as there was a real risk of the bike catching fire.
My later discussion with the supplier of the battery left me feeling a bit miffed as they'd had several reports of these events from customers in the past & hadn't thought about issuing a warning to check your voltage regulator before going down the Lithium path. They stated "that was probably a good idea".
Bottom line suggestion - if your after out & out robust reliability for a battery, best to stick with a lead acid style. If your racing or prepared to accept some extra risk of failure then Lithium is for you.
That said, if it's a Jap voltage regulator, you can be 99% confident. If it's Italian, Mmmmmmmmmm. Let just say my Sherco is now sporting a lead acid battery & Yamaha regulator & tops out @ 14.8 volts when your ringing it's neck.
What brand lithium battery was it ?
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 18-12-2016
Nutty's Avatar
Nutty Nutty is offline
The "One" and only
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Worlds only above-ground Cemetary
Posts: 10,496
Couple of things;

1) All late version lithium battery's will have a slight INTERNAL parasitic drain. This is because the discharge and charge control circuits are permanently connected to the battery internally. Only about 3/4 of a Li battery case is battery. The rest is electronics and safety void.

2) Li batterys can tolerate charge voltages up to about 16VDC. The incoming charge doesn't connect to the battery, it goes in through the batterys internal regulator circuits.

3) Output voltages from a bikes charging circuit are not tied to rpm. A 2T KTM makes @90VAC at 3000rpm. The rec/reg has plenty of spare headroom to make specified DC output almost from idle.

4) Most bike rec/regs are specced at 13.8VDC or 14.4VDC


It is common for Li batteries in dirt bikes to parasitically drain themselves over a week or two. As TMac said, the internal detection should open-circuit the output until a charging supply appears. Mine does this...After 10 minutes riding it's fine.
__________________
A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any invention in human history - with the possible exceptions of handguns and tequila.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 18-12-2016
Chewy's Avatar
Chewy Chewy is offline
dbw Pro Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Geebong
Posts: 2,104
Sounds like Andrews battery did not have a BMS in it.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
SSB Lithium battery - which one? Brendan.N General Bike Related Discussion 28 23-07-2016 11:38 PM
Lithium Battery fault? CB23 Electrical Forum 3 27-11-2015 10:56 PM
Lithium Battery? MrNoodle Tech Talk 61 29-11-2014 02:29 PM
Which Lithium battery for my KLX? Arctra Kawasaki Forum 2 22-10-2014 12:39 PM
"This lithium batteries got nothing in it!" The lithium Motorcycle Battery Dissected walks General Bike Related Discussion 35 05-07-2013 07:28 PM



All times are GMT +11. The time now is 06:15 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.