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  #31  
Old 21-07-2018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arctra View Post
I got home this evening and could not resist fitting the 58 tooth sprocket and testing it.

The 58T is quite significantly larger!


Unlike fitting a new chain on a dirt bike, it wasn't so simple to put the new chain on as I expected. The lack of "freewheel" meant that it took quite an effort to turn the small sprocket to get it to turn and take the new chain. I would definitely recommend connecting up the new chain to the one you're replacing properly with a masterlink in order to pull the new chain through without the link failing. Anyway, the new sprocket fits nicely.


The new "High Torque" sprocket lops a LOT of the top speed off the bike! The speedo said I got up to 45km/h (though I have no idea how accurate that is) whereas with the stock one I think I got up to about 65km/h (I wasn't paying too much attention). The bike did handle the incline I tested it on better, but she certainly isn't hill climbing machine. It would have been nice to have a clutch to feather to help, but alas...

I guess I am just going to have to adapt to what the bike is capable of in time and ride accordingly. Still, I reckon I will get to enjoy it, especially since I can get home and go riding right in the parks/bushland nearby.
Firstly congrat's, looks like fun.

Keep on top of those sprocket bolts, 58 tooth has a lot of leverage on that base circle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gasgasman280 View Post
What's the centre of gravity like on this?
High as buggery, but it doesn't weigh much and higher c.o.g means fast easy direction changes, low is for stability. Ask Honda, they tried it all.
Of course you don't want a short wheelbase with a high c.o.g, unless you prefer nose wheelies to actually stopping.




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Last edited by Tom68; 21-07-2018 at 07:57 AM.
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  #32  
Old 24-07-2018
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Footpeg fitting measurements

I had planned on giving the bike a good test this last weekend, but unfortunately I had a pretty good stack riding up a rock section on my KTM and hurt myself, so I didn't get to ride it. So no "ride reports" yet I'm afraid.

I'm able to move again today, so thought I'd see whether the set of titanium footpegs that I got with my KTM would fit the Sur-ron (as I have put my Fastway pegs on the KTM). I figure they're nice and light, and because they're nice and grippy they should work nicely on the eBike.

I whipped the right peg off, then removed the beg from the bracket to measure its width. I measures 25.02mm, though the bracket doesn't look perfectly square, so there's no guarantee the other bracket will be the same.


The stock pegs tongue is 23.19mm wide, so there's just under 1mm clearance each side between the peg tongue and the bracket.


But putting the verniers on the KTM peg tongue has them at 25.79mm, so just under 1mm wider than the bracket There is quite a bit of material on the pegs so I'm debating filing off some on the thicker side to get them to fit. I could try adjusting the brackets, but I feel that it a higher risk option than adjusting the pegs. I'll think about it and make a decision tomorrow.
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  #33  
Old 12-08-2018
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Finally had a decent ride on some local mountain bike tracks today. Very tight single track which meant lots of on-the-throttle off-the-throttle riding, and coz it was hilly lots of full throttle up slopes that were pretty steep (steep enough that I wouldn't want to be walking up them, let alone peddling up them!)

I rode 18.5 km, averaging just over 15 km/h with a max speed of 42 km/h. That used 58% of the battery. I do need to do a proper range test where I ride it until it stops sometime, but for the moment I'm still feeling out how it goes.

Ergo-wise, I em actually quite enjoying the small frame. I thought I might find the small frame cramped and unpleasant after a while, but I didn't today. The springs are definitely soft for my weight, but that's hardly a surprise given the bike is rated for a maximum of 100kg rider and I am a good 20kg over that I need to try and work out what spring rates the existing springs are first, then figure out what might be more appropriate for my weight, then try and find the right dimension springs at that rate. And then the tuning can begin!

On todays ride I discovered a few things about the bike.
  • The throttle cut-off swtch on the brakes that cuts power to the motor when you pull the lever is not something I am happy with. There is a way of disabling that though, so will be looking to do that soon.
  • The bike has a tilt-cutoff switch that required turning the key off an on again ("rebooting" the bike) before the throttle will work again. I guess that's to stop the bike thrashing around on the floor if you fall and the throttle gets jammed on. Good safety feature!
  • It would be nice if the bike had regenerative braking to harvest energy to the battery to improve range. There is a new Sine Wave controller that is available that is supposed to support regenerative braking, and as a bonus because it is Sine Wave rather than the stock square-wave controller it is mean to be a bit more powerful and a bit quieter. I will be looking into that for sure!
  • Although the handlebars aren't too bad, I think I would like to try and fit my Renthal Twinwall handlebars to see if the raised bars make riding the bike any more comfortable and also to see what effect that has on the bikes ergonomics, steerablity, etc.
  • The little seat is actually a lot more comforatble than I expected it to be. It is several-fold better than a bicycle saddle for sure, but it didn't look like it would be that comfortable to me. Maybe all the in-built "padding" I have compensates for the seat?
  • The narrow foot pegs aren't great. I will definitely be looking to fit wide motorcycle ones. I see that AEbikes actually sells foot peg brackets for the Sur-ron, and they're pretty cheap, so rather than modify my current pegs/bracket I'll probably just get a new set of brackets and work with those

I think I am really gonna like this bike! My fears of having buyers-remorse are pretty much gone now.
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  #34  
Old 14-08-2018
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Brake cutoff switch removal

The Sur-ron has a "safety" throttle cutoff switch which chops power to the motor as soon as you pull either brake lever. I have found this a little annoying so thought I would disable it and see how it goes. Between doing some research with Luna Cycles in the USA and reading up on the a document on AEbikes, I managed to figure out what to so.

The ignition switch needs to be removed by using a 4mm allen key to remove the 2 retaining screws.


With a bit of gentle wiggling the switch comes out to expose the 3 plugs in the wiring harness


The 3 plugs are in a rubber boot than it tucked away in the frame. There is enough length in the wiring harness to pull it out to get easier access to the plugs.


I removed the rear brake sensor plug first.


Then the front brake sensor.


I rebated leaving the wires in place, but decided against it in favour of packing them away safely where they can't be damaged in case I want to connect them back up again later. With a 7mm spanner the sensor retaining bolt unwinds easily enough.


The sensor itself slides quite far into the take lever housing, so I reckon it's pretty well protected there.


With the rera cable removed, it was onto the front - same simple procedure.


I was going to label each of the sensor cords in case they were different lengths, but it seems they are exactly the same length. Nice and easy then.


Luckily I noticed that there is a little spring in the sensor hole of the lever housing. I probably would have lost the springs otherwise.


I have taped over the sensor holes in lever housing to prevent dirt and water getting in them. It'll be interesting to see what the bike feels like to ride without the cutoff's now.
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  #35  
Old 15-08-2018
nelpd96 nelpd96 is offline
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A mate of mine has one. I found that the brake cut could be used like a clutch almost. Light pressure to cut power, wind on the throttle then release the brake and you can pop it up over things. With regeneration on the X controller you could probably disconnect the the rear brake or have a second leaver like a clake to get a clutch type effect.
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  #36  
Old 15-08-2018
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That makes a lot of sense nelpd96. Thanks for that/your posting:
ie. Maybe set it's "cut-out" activation under full-braking & not b4.

I currently know little about any of this: Since it's new to us all:
Yet, It seems to me that tuning a "full cut-out" could be useful?

ie. Having a cut-out function/operate only-as deliberately deemed:
The plug-in switch could be re-installed with more/latent free-play.
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  #37  
Old 15-08-2018
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Battery charge and longevity

I accidentally forgot to turn off the battery charger today so when I got home the battery was well and truly 100% charged. I have noticed that the charger clicks on for a while then off again, so it much have some sort of maintenance charge functionality. Anyway, I waited until the charger clicked off to be certain that the battery would be at its maximum charge state, and then I used my voltage meter to check the charge. I measured 66.1V.



According to the specs, the 60 Volt Battery Pack is configured with 16 Panasonic NCR18650PF 2900mAh cells in series (and 11 of those in parallel). So 66.1V divided by 16 means that each cell is at about 4.13V. The "nominal voltage" of 18650 Lithium Ion cells is normally about 3.6V, and their maximum voltage is 4.2V. According to "The Battery University" article on prolonging the life of Lithium cells (https://batteryuniversity.com/index....ased_batteries) if you charge the cell to 4.2V you will be between 300 and 500 cycles out of the cells, but charging to only 4.15V increases that to between 400 and 700 cycles, and charging to only 4.1V would increase the life even further to between 600 and 1000 cycles. In Table 4 of the article they state Every 0.10V drop below 4.20V/cell doubles the cycle but holds less capacity... Every 70mV drop in charge voltage lowers the usable capacity by about 10%.

the article also states "In terms of longevity, the optimal charge voltage is 3.92V/cell. Battery experts believe that this threshold eliminates all voltage-related stresses; going lower may not gain further benefits but induce other symptoms." That would mean the 16 cells in series would total 62.72V

The largest capacity loss occurs when discharging a fully charged Li-ion to 25 percent State of Charge. The smallest capacity loss is attained by charging Li-ion to 75 percent and discharging to 65 percent. So the longest life of the battery would mean keeping each cell no lower than 3.9V and no higher than 4V, which means letting the battery go no lower than 62.4V and no higher than 64V. That is a very small range and not really practical. I think I need to do some testing to see what my optimal max and min states of charge will be.

The other consideration is the rate of charge of the battery pack. The stock 60V charger is rated at 67.2V at 10 Amps, so that means across 11 parallel there is less than 1 Amp of current flowing into the cells. That isn't too bad from what I know, but charging them at a slower rate would result in lower battery temperatures which would further prolong the cells life. I have seen there are 2 amp 60V chargers for wheelchairs and ebikes, which would be a mere 0.18 amps that would not raise the temperatures of the cells much at all. It would also mean that at 120W I can use my inverter and solar panel to slowly charge the battery during the week.

Lots of testing and experimenting to be done...
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  #38  
Old 15-08-2018
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Deano, don't assume that output voltage at your DVM is an accurate total voltage of the series sum of the strand. Inevitably there will be an internal control circuit between the cell pack and the output terminals.

It's very rare that composite battery packs have external charge/dump control cards.
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  #39  
Old 20-08-2018
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Fitting wider footpegs

I was reluctant to modify my titanium footpegs off my KTM to fit the brackets of the Sur-ron, and after chatting to Adam at Aebikes he told me that he had used wider pegs off a CRF70 I went on eBay and looked some up. I found a set on that were advertised to fit "Honda XR50R CRF50 to CRF100F pit bike" for all of $25, so I ordered a set. They arrived this afternoon!


They seem to be of pretty decent quality and nowhere near as roughly cast as some other pegs I have used in the past.

Putting them next to the stock pegs you can see they are appreciably wider, so hopefully they'll feel a lot more comfortable.


Putting the pegs in the brackets with the springs provided was more of a challenge than I was up for they're so strong, so I just re-used the stock springs off the OEM pegs as they fitted. Maybe at a later date I'll have another go, but this works for now.


The top view of the new pegs fitted. I'm looking forward to testing them out soon!
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  #40  
Old 26-08-2018
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X-Controller Sine Wave controller

Since buying my Sur-ron I have been watching a lot more videos on it on YouTube, and recently there has been a bit of buzz about a new Sine Wave controller to replace the stock "Pulse Width Managed" controller which is more of a "square wave" conversion of the battery DC to AC needed by the Brushless DC motor.

Information about the controller is a bit thin on the ground, but Luna Cycles in the US claims (https://lunacycle.com/sur-ron-model-...ve-controller/)
Quote:
- 25% increased power from the stock controller.
- 10% increase in top speed.
- Smoother, more linear power band.
- Regenerative braking.
...
Sine wave controllers are the latest in brushless motor controllers which smooth out many of the rough edges of the old school "square wave" controllers, resulting in 30% less noise compared to the stock controller!

The next big difference is that you will notice is much smoother throttle response off the line. Sine Wave controllers are digitally controlled and programmed, resulting in a much smoother and more predictable power curve throughout the entire range of operation.

In addition to the improvements in driving mannerisms, this controller outputs approximately 25% more torque
...
REGENERATIVE BRAKING
FINALLY! A huge bonus on this controller ... is regenerative braking. This means the motor actually slows the bike when you let off the throttle while simultaneously charging the battery.

In sport mode when you let off the throttle the regen braking comes on full. The bike brakes and recharges the battery at the same time. Not only does this make the bike more efficient and increase your range it will also lengthen the life of your disc brake pads.

As an added feature, the new controller allows you turn off the regenerative braking function by simply switching to “EP” mode on the control switch.
Sounds pretty good to me! How much is hype and how much is real? Well, that's what I want to find out. I contacted Adam at AEbikes and he had one X-controller left in stock, so I snapped it up. He was also kind enough to help me fitting it - BONUS!


The part number is 21100-YQ2A-0201 and it is only compatible with motors whose part number ends in 0200 according to Sur-ron. It seems that the bikes AEbikes has sold are compatible - it sounds like it is only the very early model bikes that had the older motor not compatible with the X-controller. Bummer if you own one of those bikes,but I guess that's the risk you take as an early adopter.


Now, as it turns out Adam had another controller that had been damaged in shipping (or maybe before shipping, but whatever the case it was damaged) and I watched him open it up in front of me. That was great coz it gave me a LOT more confidence in just how waterproof the electronics are (one of the BIG questions and concerns I have had). Where the wiring harness cables go into the controller case there is a heap of silicone sealant that has been pushed in between the wires and the rubber seal to prevent water ingress.


Removing the 4 screws that hold that seal in pace and lifting it up you can see it seals nice and tight against the case, so I would be VERY surprised if any water got past that seal setup and into the controller case.


Getting the actual case cover off was a mission! It is well and truly sealed in place to the point where I have no doubt that it is water tight! It took a good half hour or so with a razor blade and screwdriver to pry the cover off. Underneath the cover there isn't a lot to see (well, compared to what I expected to see anyway) because the circuit board is "potted" ("electronic assembly completely filled with a solid compound for resistance to shock and vibration, and for exclusion of moisture and corrosive agents" according to Wikipedia). Basically all you can see is the beefy shunt wires and a heap of capacitors.


The capacitors are rated to 80V (so plenty of safety margin there given my battery outputs 66.1V when 100% charged according to my multimeter.
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