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Old 11-08-2018
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4wd Steel Wheel Options

Iím looking to change the wheels on my ute and had a conversation with a tyre/wheel shop and they told me a couple of things that Iím questioning -

1. Steel wheels canít use hub centric rings when the centre bore of the rim is bigger than your vehicle?

2. Steel wheel manufacturers donít make specific rims to get the correct centre bore and PCD for every vehicle?

Example - my Ranger has the same PCD as many other makes, but smaller centre bore which isnít as common as others. So I apparently have to mount rims by studs only. I donít like this idea, Iíve done this previously and itís chewed studs and made it difficult to balance wheels.

Whatís the story?
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Old 11-08-2018
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Nothing wrong with stud-centric with good wheels and matching tapered nuts.

Hub-centric was important with old aluminium mags when held with stepped nuts and washers.

Steel wheels can have a neat true fit on the hub and many do, there's also plenty of aly wheels being centered by studs only.

Only wheel fail I've seen had 45 degree tapers on the wheels and 60 degrees on the nuts, have recut tapers in wheels before to match available nuts.
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Old 11-08-2018
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Good point regarding the matching tapered nuts Tom. The wheels Iím currently using are 80 series Prado, not sure if the tapered Ford nuts match.

But in a load carrying vehicle, wouldnít it be better to locate the wheel on the hub? Surely less stress on the studs?
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Old 11-08-2018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigberger View Post
Good point regarding the matching tapered nuts Tom. The wheels Iím currently using are 80 series Prado, not sure if the tapered Ford nuts match.

But in a load carrying vehicle, wouldnít it be better to locate the wheel on the hub? Surely less stress on the studs?
Studs only locate the wheel until tightened correctly, the stretched stud and resulting clamping pressure do the work then. A hub-centric wheel without enough clamping pressure will self destruct in good time.

A flywheel needs to be hub centric for balance, but the forces applied to it don't require the hub, just the clamping force of the bolts.

More complex loads in a crownwheel, but I've seen several that didn't have their bolts done up until stretched. They come loose, borrowed a diff at the track one day, didn't trust the people I was borrowing it off, grabbed the crown wheel bolts in front of them, finger tight.
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Old 11-08-2018
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Most pickups require the wheel to bear directly on the spigot to achieve their ADR load rating. If the vehicle has FACTORY FITTED plastic bore locators it will also be fitted with high tensile load rated studs.

As Tom has said, hub-bearing wheels have no shear loading on their studs. Stud-bearing arrangements have much stronger studs because they're also taking load in shear...

Hiaces are a good example of non-load rated studs and load-bearing spigots. Most non-OEM mags fitted to Hiaces are illegal. Any Inspector with half an idea will defect bodgy fitments.

In NSW this mod is banned in VSI No6 Item 15.

Ask me how I know all this...
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Old 11-08-2018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigberger View Post
Iím looking to change the wheels on my ute and had a conversation with a tyre/wheel shop and they told me a couple of things that Iím questioning -

1. Steel wheels canít use hub centric rings when the centre bore of the rim is bigger than your vehicle?

2. Steel wheel manufacturers donít make specific rims to get the correct centre bore and PCD for every vehicle?

Example - my Ranger has the same PCD as many other makes, but smaller centre bore which isnít as common as others. So I apparently have to mount rims by studs only. I donít like this idea, Iíve done this previously and itís chewed studs and made it difficult to balance wheels.

Whatís the story?

Ive got a Ranger with Black Dynamic steel wheels with 33inch BFG K02s fitted to it and they fit with a 2inch lift.

The balancing thing was something id heard about and i have had a few issues and im about to get them balanced and a wheel alignment done again but i have a feeling this might be down to the bob jane shop who fit them for me. They did some less than average things when fitting my first set that led to me making them replace the first set of wheels and tires with another brand new set. They used a set of cheapo black wheel nuts that chewed the hell out of the face on the wheel, its something that blind freddy would have noticed as metal shavings were poking out from between the nut and the wheel. I took a nut off at home and saw what it had done to the wheel and drove it straight back and made them replace them. Didnt give me a lot of confidence in their work after that.

They have been ok for the last few months but a vibration has developed at about 75-90 ks. I wont be taking it back them though.
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Old 11-08-2018
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Originally Posted by pecker View Post
Ive got a Ranger with Black Dynamic steel wheels with 33inch BFG K02s fitted to it and they fit with a 2inch lift.

The balancing thing was something id heard about and i have had a few issues and im about to get them balanced and a wheel alignment done again but i have a feeling this might be down to the bob jane shop who fit them for me. They did some less than average things when fitting my first set that led to me making them replace the first set of wheels and tires with another brand new set. They used a set of cheapo black wheel nuts that chewed the hell out of the face on the wheel, its something that blind freddy would have noticed as metal shavings were poking out from between the nut and the wheel. I took a nut off at home and saw what it had done to the wheel and drove it straight back and made them replace them. Didnt give me a lot of confidence in their work after that.

They have been ok for the last few months but a vibration has developed at about 75-90 ks. I wont be taking it back them though.
That sucks, I know exactly how you feel. My wobble comes at the same speed with my current steelies. I use a torque wrench when putting the nuts on after one of my nuts seized on the thread - around the same time my car came back from Pedders and strangely around the same time a brake caliper bolt went missing...but that's another story.

I've not seen any major burring at the mounting surface to my wheels, but they are fairly old and holes aren't perfect now. The nuts are fairly good, but as Tom pointed out, I've never checked if these two surfaces are meant for each other.

I was actually talking to a Bob Jane about Dynamic wheels! They're the catalyst for this post!! I might look at other brands if you are having these problems, maybe Kings.
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Old 11-08-2018
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The whole hubcentric thing is massively overstated.
I dunno about 4WDs, but a hell of a lot of race and rally cars have covered many kilometres at full noise on non-hub-centric wheels without any issues at all.

Any problems that do arise, are inevitably the result of improper torquing of the nuts, be it too much, too little or uneven.

The primary load path between the wheel and the hub is the friction between the two mating surfaces - if the wheel studs have any shear load, then there is something significantly wrong.
If the friction between the mounting face of the wheel and the hub/brake rotor/brake drum is insufficient for the loads, then there will be relative movement between those faces which will cause obvious wear/noise.
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Old 11-08-2018
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Originally Posted by Nutty View Post
Most pickups ....
So Nutty has gotten his due diligence wrong here guys. He meant to say "utes".
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Old 12-08-2018
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So(sic) Nutty has gotten(sic) his due diligence wrong here guys. He meant to say "utes".
Actually, later Holden and Falcon utes had high tensile studs and non load-bearing spigots. I was mainly referring to Thai pickups. A fully loaded and tow weighted D-max, Ranger, etc has a GCM well over 6 tonnes. That isn't a 1100kg rally car with Bilstein suspension...

I did my Inspectors ticket way back in 1986 and they were red-hot on this at the time. I've seen Hiace non-OEM wheels shear off studs three times, all MX vans, TC, Ando and Paul Grant, they're all lucky to be alive. I guess both the NSW and Federal law bans it for sound technical reasons.

In these days where sly insurance companies are looking for any excuse to not pay out, I'd be very wary of aftermarket wheel fitments. Some of the guys in tyre shops aren't that cluey...Caveat Emptor.
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