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  #31  
Old 19-08-2017
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Originally Posted by tonyg View Post
Increasing your grip strength without increasing your cardiovascular fitness can/will make arm pump worse.
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Originally Posted by Nutty View Post

This a bloody good Physio saying this folks, this simple training error almost killed Jay Marmonts career.
Good to know.
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  #32  
Old 19-08-2017
ian9toes ian9toes is offline
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Originally Posted by tonyg View Post
Increasing your grip strength without increasing your cardiovascular fitness can/will make arm pump worse.

You're not giving us the full picture. You're saying any increase in grip strength is going to give you arm pump if there isn't ALSO an increase in cardiovascular fitness. What if your cardio is already at a very high level?
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  #33  
Old 19-08-2017
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You're not giving us the full picture. You're saying any increase in grip strength is going to give you arm pump if there isn't ALSO an increase in cardiovascular fitness. What if your cardio is already at a very high level?
I'm assuming he means the vascular improvement has to be to and from the muscles getting strained, lactic acid removal improvement ??

Could also be about forearms getting to big ??
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  #34  
Old 19-08-2017
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Compartment syndrome perhaps?
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  #35  
Old 19-08-2017
ian9toes ian9toes is offline
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I have read how too much muscle can hinder blood flow and make arm pump worse, but there are guys on YouTube that can hang for over 10 minutes without looking bulky at all.
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"Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."John 3:5
"Not one dyno run here has seen a 450 4T hit 8HP or a 500-530cc 4T hit 10HP at 3000rpm, EVERY KTM300 pull is over 12HP at the same revs." Expert Tuner
Current bike: 2013 Berg 300. Previous: 2006 KTM 300, 2004 KTM 250 EXC, Husky TE 350, DT 200, KDX 200, XT 200, XR 80, XR 75, RM 50
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  #36  
Old 19-08-2017
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I think it's pretty hard to get "bulky" just doing body weight exercises, to add decent amounts of muscle you really need to train with weights so I wouldn't worry about it too much.
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  #37  
Old 20-08-2017
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Dunno, the only decent size muscle group on me is my forearms, maybe genetic BlackSmith or just from a riding from a young age and being on the tools from 15 years of age.

My armpump I think is brought on by lever use, but I'd say I'm somewhat dehydrated when it happens and then it was mostly on MX tracks that I only did a couple of times.

Never really exercised in my whole life other than swimming the last few years and some Gymnastics last year, gotta get back to that.
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  #38  
Old 20-08-2017
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Never really exercised in my whole life other than swimming the last few years and some Gymnastics last year, gotta get back to that.

I find it difficult to exercise after working physically. I know I should, and I know the extra effort will make everything easier. But since giving up Rugby, I find the motivation is missing.

I'm going to change my focus like some of you guys here. Get fit for the bike, enjoy the time on it more. And now having a son, I want to make sure I can stay ahead of him for as long as I can!

But swimming, no chance. I'm a dead set anchor! I'll try hanging though, I have a bent pair of handle bars I might suspend and work on that - maybe a central hanging point so I concentrate on a little balance too.

Id love to do a muscle up one day. That's a new goal. Keep posting this stuff Ian, it's good motivation.
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  #39  
Old 20-08-2017
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyg View Post
Increasing your grip strength without increasing your cardiovascular fitness can/will make arm pump worse.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ian9toes View Post
You're not giving us the full picture. You're saying any increase in grip strength is going to give you arm pump if there isn't ALSO an increase in cardiovascular fitness. What if your cardio is already at a very high level?
Apologies for my vague and over-simplified comment Ian.

Re: 'Arm Pump', or 'Chronic Exertional Compartment Syndrome', the medical literature is a little light on the subject due to lack of studies/clinical trials. It remains a complex topic but in simple terms, the muscles become engorged with blood when over-worked; the increased volume reduces space within the compartment wrapping (fascia).
It is thought to be the cause of pain/discomfort whilst the excess acid causes the muscle to fatigue.

What IS becoming clear in the literature is that a strong cardio-respiratory system improves blood flow and rids the muscles of waste products.... Nutty has been saying this for years regarding arm pump and he is right on the mark.

There are benefits for the shoulder complex by 'hanging' of various types although I would recommend beginning slowly for tissue adaptation to occur as it can overload structures in the wrist, elbow, and shoulder. Some may want to begin with a box to stand on so as to unload some of the body weight...particularly the heavier fellas.

For off-road riding I would caution against doing excessive anaerobic strength work for the hands/arms, particularly training muscles in isolation.

So to answer your question bold, you should have no problems providing your training centers around muscle endurance....which it does.

Many years ago a mate who had extensive road bike experience but limited off-road experience decided to join me on a fairly technical ride. This fellow was a former competitive body builder with phenomenal grip strength but mediocre fitness at best. He suffered horrible arm pump throughout the ride. Yes, one could say his technique was inefficient and suffered some anxiety due to the challenging terrain, but the fact remains he possessed incredible hand/arm strength.

The topic is not cut n dry though, due to so many factors involved and varying physiology between subjects, fast twitch versus slow twitch fibers, muscle endurance, lactate threshold, diet, autonomic dominance etc.....

Back on the topic of hanging, have you tried adding 'pulling the shoulder blades down, then releasing slowly"?
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  #40  
Old 21-08-2017
ian9toes ian9toes is offline
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Originally Posted by tonyg View Post

Back on the topic of hanging, have you tried adding 'pulling the shoulder blades down, then releasing slowly"?
Thanks for the much more detailed response. It seems cardio exercise is beneficial in many ways, I'll have to do some, you've given me good reason to.

The best exercise I have right now is a 2km 1st gear rocky creek bed run, you don't even realise you're working so hard until you reach your limit. Unfortunately it's a 2 hr drive away.

I had a go at that exercise after dead hanging for 1:50 (my new record, bring on the long hill climbs). I take it that exercise is good for shoulders? It seems like the push-up plus my physio suggested and the dip plus I saw somewhere else, they all involve working the shoulder blades.
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"Not one dyno run here has seen a 450 4T hit 8HP or a 500-530cc 4T hit 10HP at 3000rpm, EVERY KTM300 pull is over 12HP at the same revs." Expert Tuner
Current bike: 2013 Berg 300. Previous: 2006 KTM 300, 2004 KTM 250 EXC, Husky TE 350, DT 200, KDX 200, XT 200, XR 80, XR 75, RM 50
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